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Legat de postul 563... vise...In Romanica apare in 2008,deci isi respecta delay-ul obisnuit de 6 luni... This post has been edited by andreicri: 20 Sep 2007, 14:02

Legat de postul 563... vise...In Romanica apare in 2008,deci isi respecta delay-ul obisnuit de 6 luni...

This post has been edited by andreicri: 20 Sep 2007, 14:02

De unde stii ca vine in 2008? Pe InsideNewLaguna, in ultimul interviu, tipul vorbea de o lansare simultana in toata Ioropa.
P.S. Au pus preturile la Laguna III pe site-ul Renault. Asa ca acum va puteti da cu parerea la optionale si preturi.

This post has been edited by Dany: 20 Sep 2007, 14:36

Preturile in franta
Ca in Romania mai asteptam...

Tot entuziasmul meu din posturile anterioare s-a cam fisiit. Sint destul de dezamagit de optionalele care apar chiar si la modelul Initiale. Ar fi trebuit sa am mai multe lucruri la dispozitie. Eu imi doream in principal cutia automata cu 6 trepte. Asta este unul din motivele pentru care as lua masina. In momentul in care o sa apara in RO sau, cine stie, poate chiar din FR, si mai ales in momentul in care o sa am finantele necesare planuiesc sa o iau.

Aleg masina pentru calitatea Renault, pentru fiabilitatea masinii mele actuale, pentru ca am multe service-uri la dispozitie in caz de vreo problema, etc. Si o aleg pentru un interior superb. Dar dotarile...

Dezamagitor de putine dotari. Imi doream de exemplu priza de 220V ca optional. E ceva util, in pofida unor comentarii rautacioase la care ma astept. Imi doream cruise control adaptiv. Ford Mondeo are asa ceva si multe masini noi au asa ceva. Chiar nu pot sa inteleg de ce nu le-au pus. Nu au avut timp sa le testeze, nu au iesit ok in teste? Vor mai aparea pe parcurs?

De 2008 stiu si eu de la unul din concesionari. Partea interesanta este ca tot in 2008 vor sa bage si coupeul in Romania.

... Au pus preturile la Laguna III pe site-ul Renault. Asa ca acum va puteti da cu parerea la optionale si preturi.

Da' motorizarea dCi 175? Chiar eram curios, in iarna pare-se ca fi-vom prin zona aia...

RENAULT APPLIES ITS METHODS FOR EXCELLENCE TO

BUILDING AND SELLING NEW LAGUNA

New Laguna, which will be available in Renault's European network on October 12, aims to join the Top 3 in its segment for product and service quality. The Sandouville factory aims to achieve the very highest levels of quality and reliability right from the start of production.
The sales network has also prepared for the arrival of New Laguna by deploying new diagnostics tools and delivering special training to staff. The progress achieved has been extended to meet the same demands throughout the range and all over the world.

Driving the commitment to Quality

The strict application of existing procedures, methods and tools, including the Renault Production System and the Renault Excellence Plan, guarantees that Renault will fully honour its commitment to quality.
Developing the skills and qualifications of the employees who build our cars, including suppliers in the production process and rolling out the Renault Production System, designed to improve the organisation and the performance of our industrial facilities, all make key contributions to achieving excellence on a daily basis.
The primary goal of the Renault Excellence Plan is to fulfil the ambition of the Renault Nissan Alliance: "to be seen by customers as one of the top three carmakers worldwide in terms of quality and service in every region and in every market segment". The main goals are:
- to continue to reduce the number of incidents,
- to improve reliability,
- to organise tools used to monitor incidents and breakdowns on a worldwide scale,
- to further improve after-sales efficiency,
- to deliver quality parts through worldwide sourcing.

A best-in-class production facility

The Sandouville factory has been making Renault's range-topping vehicles since 1964, producing almost 20 models over 40 years.
The factory's employees enthusiastically welcomed the arrival of New Laguna and were quick to rally around the launch of the new model.
A number of actions were taken to reach unprecedented quality levels:
- pre-project preparations at an early stage with central engineering,
- extensive training of operators,
- increased checks and empowerment of suppliers.
Checks have been tightened across the board:
- the reliability of assembly operations has been improved by setting up "strike zones".
Components are prepared right beside the assembly line, avoiding the risk of installing the wrong parts. All handling operations that involve the risk of the operator choosing the wrong part are supervised and checked by a computerised system. Operators can now focus wholly on the quality of assembly,
- the protection of the cars has been strengthened all along the assembly line through the use of rigid plastic shells for exterior parts and plastic films for decorative parts,
- every vehicle undergoes static and dynamic tests and is electronically diagnosed before leaving the factory,
- the test track at the end of the assembly line now includes a paved section and a series of tight corners designed to detect noise-related problems.

Highly qualified operators in a ergonomic environment

In 2006, 120,000 hours of training were delivered, representing an average of 30 hours per employee. The training focussed on behavioural factors contributing to excellence, such as rigour, reactivity and responsibility. The complete management chain was closely involved in the training programme. This training initiative has now been extended to other sites, including Valladolid, SOVAB and Dieppe.
The significant progress made on the ergonomics of Laguna II was incorporated into New Laguna right from the design phase:
- the optimisation of the operator workstations and reconfiguration of flows have boosted the reliability of tasks and the number of difficult workstations in the factory has been cut by 40%,
- in the strike zones, operators can concentrate entirely on their assembly tasks and the parts they need have been placed near a hand within 2.50 meters,
- efforts required to clip on components have been significantly reduced by redesigning to more than 200 parts,
- new carbon facilities used to fit panels reduce the weight of the machines and make it easier for the operators to mount the vehicle doors,
- in the paintwork shop, the automated opening system allows operators to apply mastic without having to hold the tailgate.

Committed suppliers

Involving of suppliers in quality management and boosting their commitment to quality has been of primordial importance to Renault for some time now. With the arrival of New Laguna, the system designed to manage supplier quality was strengthened. Suppliers are now closely monitored not only in terms of their capacity to manufacture a part, but also their ability to command and control their processes in the long term. Renault applied four criteria to identify 108 "sensitive" function / supplier combinations:
- the supplier is new,
- the supplier is known but the production site is new,
- the supplier is known, but problems have occurred on other projects,
- the supplier is known and has never experienced any problems, but criticality for the customer requires the supplier to be placed under surveillance.
Purchasing and the Supplier Quality Department from each Renault production site work hand in hand to make sure that suppliers reach the required quality levels. Purchasing selects a supplier from its panel on the strength of to quality performance with the help of the factory to ensure that the supplier is capable of meeting the factory's conformity criteria. In the production phase, the Supplier Quality Department monitors supplied products in order to detect any instances of nonconformity and to immediately raise a quality alert for the supplier where appropriate. Batches of "sensitive" parts are isolated. A joint effort is made with Purchasing and the supplier in order to take any necessary corrective actions.

New tools for easier diagnostics

New Laguna targets a demanding clientele that expects the very best service, both in sales and after-sales. Vehicle maintenance and reparability were taken into consideration right from the very first digital prototypes. More than 1,500 checkpoints have been identified and tested in fully fledged prototype workshops designed to scrutinise the diagnostics tools and methods. 800 symptoms and 6,000 types of fault have been recorded in a bid to translate the symptoms described by the customer into technical terms. Four new tools have been deployed in the network:
- the Symptom Targeting Module, which is used to characterise the incident described by the customer. All information is recorded and sent to the workshop in order to avoid the loss of valuable data between the customer's explanations and the technician's analysis,
- the Clip Alliance diagnostics tool guides the technician step by step when working on the vehicle. The precise cause and required repairs can be identified automatically by using the right input data for an effective diagnosis. The target is to process 80% of faults in less than one hour and 95% of faults in less than two hours,
- in the next step, the technician proceeds with the repairs. The new Dialogys system provides direct access to technical documentation and the corresponding repair method,
- when repairers are faced with complex incidents that they are unable to solve, they can use the video assistance service to establish a direct video link with the manufacturer's technical support department. The camera is small enough to view inaccessible parts and to save valuable time and money for the customer.

Targeted training for best-in-class service

In 2006, the technical and sales training plan was rolled out for the "Cotech" diagnostics and repair specialists and Service Advisors. In 2007, 11,000 electrical and mechanical experts have been trained in the new tools. This plan also includes a new in-depth course in the product and new tools for Service Advisors.
100% of sales staff were trained one month prior to the launch. Special training was delivered as soon as the latest-generation prototypes were available. Sales reps followed special additional modules on New Laguna and e-learning terminals have been installed in the dealerships for selftraining and tests (e.g., what sales staff need to know about the key card when handing over a new vehicle).

sursa: renault.com

to be seen by customers as one of the top three carmakers worldwide in terms of quality and service in every region and in every market segment

Imi mananc adidasii daca vor reusi chestia asta in Romania

Da va fi destul de greu ... dar daca incearca cel putin ar fi frumos si bine

Eu zic ca e greu de realizat si in alte tari... Lasa Romania, ca aici mitul Passat TDI nu va fi spulberat prea curand.

Problema e si reteaua de vanzari. Intru in showroom zic ca vreau Laguna (cand mi-am luat-o) si ma intreaba: "Sigur vreti Laguna, Megane nu va place?"

asta e pacatul lor, nu prea au pus accentul si pe alte modele decat clio si megane. Poate.. poate le revine mintea la cap. Mai ales ca ar putea fi clienti dintre cei ce au mai avut renault, lagune 2 noi sau sh..

Pacatul renault, dupa parerea mea este ca le e frica. Le e frica sa aduca modele scumpe, echipari de varf. Vw, audi nu au avut aceasta frica si nu le merge rau. Renault si-a pus baza pe vanzarea de modele ieftine, si au ignorat segmentul de pret de peste 20k euro. E drept ca un VelSatis nu a avut succes fiindca arata cam ciudat, iar la noi sunt populare sedanurile in 3 volume. Dar daca ar fi pus macar motoare puternice, dotari de lux (cum altor constructori nu le e rusine sa faca), ar fi avut vanzari bunicele.

P.S. Ar trebui sa ii scoleasca si pe agentii de vanzari un pic, majoritatea sunt pe dinafara complet. Nu e vorba de tactica si linguseala, e vorba ca nu cunosc informatii despre masinile pe care le vand.

Nici clientii nu cunosc informatii despre masinile pe care le vor. Normal ar fi un client sa-si calculeze bine bugetul, sa vada ce masini intra in pretul pe care si-l permite el, sa le compare bine si apoi cand ajunge la o lista mai mica de masini care i-ar conveni sa se duca la test-drive si sa faca alegerea dupa ce le va fi condus pe toate... Eu asta as face, desi la unele sume stiu exact ce as lua, tot m-as duce inca odata pe la fiecare ca sa fiu sigur.

Nu e vina nimanui daca tu intri in showroom si zici "Vreau Laguna diesel" si nu mai stii altceva. Sau, multumeste-te cu ce primesti.

Da, din pacate avem de-a face si cu conceptiile oamenilor, unde mai degraba muti muntii din loc decat sa le schimbi.
Am o ruda care si-a cumparat un Citroen Jumper. L-am intrebat de ce tocmai Citroen Jumper; mi-a zis ca dubele frantuzesti sunt mai ieftine decat ford, vw, mercedes, iveco. Atunci l-am intrebat de ce nu si-a cumparat Reno ca sigur era mai ieftin decat Citroen. Mi-a spus ca n-a vrut renault fiindca sunt proaste
Amu, daca isi cumpara Mercedes Sprinter si afirma ca Renault Master e masina proasta l-as fi inteles, dar in situatia in care a cumpar Citroen, nu gasesc explicatia...

pentru Cypher4laguna: "Problema e si reteaua de vanzari. Intru in showroom zic ca vreau Laguna (cand mi-am luat-o) si ma intreaba: "Sigur vreti Laguna, Megane nu va place?"


la chestia asta este un singur raspuns... baietii stiu ca laguna in varianta 1.9 dci au dat-o in bara... si nu numai la motor... asa ca te indreapta spre megane... care nu a avut asa probleme... comparativ cu laguna...

corfinarh, eu nu stiu de unde stii tu ca au dat-o in bara cu laguna 2 (la motor si la restul), dar eu am avut L" 1.9 dCi in curte de 5 ani si 150k km si nu a facut probleme majore...

Problema e si reteaua de vanzari. Intru in showroom zic ca vreau Laguna (cand mi-am luat-o) si ma intreaba: "Sigur vreti Laguna, Megane nu va place?"

Eu te-as intreba daca nu cumva ar fi mai nimerit un VelSatis pentru necesitatile tale:D

Pacatul renault, dupa parerea mea este ca le e frica. Le e frica sa aduca modele scumpe, echipari de varf. Vw, audi nu au avut aceasta frica si nu le merge rau. Renault si-a pus baza pe vanzarea de modele ieftine, si au ignorat segmentul de pret de peste 20k euro. E drept ca un VelSatis nu a avut succes fiindca arata cam ciudat, iar la noi sunt populare sedanurile in 3 volume. Dar daca ar fi pus macar motoare puternice, dotari de lux (cum altor constructori nu le e rusine sa faca), ar fi avut vanzari bunicele.

Aceasta e o mare problema. Si nu pricep de ce nu vor sa aduca. Bun, inteleg ca nu vor sa faca stoc de M2CC 2.0t 165CP full-option, insa nu inteleg de ce nu e posibil nici macar sa o comanzi. Sunt de acord ca multa lume doreste 1.6i sau 1.9dCi, insa suntem multi care am dori si o motorizare mai "serioasa" pe ea (2.0t). Aici VAG, BMW, Peugeot au fost mai inspirati si au pus la dispozitie tot ce era posibil (motorizari, dotari, etc...).

A propos de asta, am vazut o treaba interesanta la Jaguar in Germania. Acum vreun an nu (mai) era disponibil motorul 2.0d pentru X-type in Germania.

sandman... daca imi urmareai posturile, vedeai cam ce probleme sunt pe laguna ii faza 2, am avut si eu una din 2002 cu care am facut peste 50.000 km si am luat-o aproape de 150.000 km ... fara probleme... dar asta din 2006, luata din tara, este jale cu ea...

Am vazut azi Laguna cea noua pe strada in Pitesti, cu numere de probe. Pacat ca nu eram in masina, ca ma luam dupa ea sa-i fac poze. Iesea in evidenta dintre toate celelalte masini. OZN curat!

arata super varianta coupe

sandman... daca imi urmareai posturile, vedeai cam ce probleme sunt pe laguna ii faza 2, am avut si eu una din 2002 cu care am facut peste 50.000 km si am luat-o aproape de 150.000 km ... fara probleme... dar asta din 2006, luata din tara, este jale cu ea...

sunt convins ca ma vei scuza pentru ca nu ti-am urmarit posturile...

Ce e cu Active Drive asta? Ceva mai bun decat suspensie independena pe spate?
Yummi!

This post has been edited by mannick: 29 Sep 2007, 20:51

E vorba de rotile spate care vireaza cateva grade. Vezi ca s-a scris pe aici.

Da, pana acum am avut ideea ca este vorba de ceva pasiv, chestii care se deformeaza progresiv in functie de efortul la virare, dar pare a fi vorba de un motoras/actuator care comanda unghiul rotilor spate. Desteapta chestie, or mai folosi-o si altii in afara de Renault?

Daca nu ma insel ActiveDrive era si la altii de ceva timp. Ce mi se pare insa ciudat din imaginile astea este ca ActiveDrive-ul pare sa fie pus pe Laguna "normala". Ori din documentatia lor intelesesem ca aia o sa fie disponibila doar pe break. Sau poate ma insel eu.

Eu nu inteleg cum e posibil ca nici Laguna 3 sa nu aiba suspensie spate independenta. Nu pot pricepe cum este posibil asa ceva si ce au avut in minte cand au ales vechea varianta (sa mearga tot cu punte semirigida). E clasa medie (nu vreo ieftinaciune), e model nou, suntem in 2007, nu in 1975. Ma batea gandul....dar m-am dezumflat destul de tare.

This post has been edited by dack: 1 Oct 2007, 16:03

Nu stiu ce vor altii, dar eu imi iau masina in functie de alte calitati, nu in functie de puntea spate. Eu traiesc bine mersi si fara punte spate independenta... unii is prea carcotasi...

S-a mai discutat treaba cu puntea si inainte. Asa cum a mai spus cineva, sint sigur ca masina a fost testata sa se comporte foarte bine chiar si in lipsa unei punti independente. Daca jonglezi bine cu suspensiile... Plus ca pe o punte independenta era cam greu sa pui ActiveDrive.

Eu nu inteleg cum e posibil ca nici Laguna 3 sa nu aiba suspensie spate independenta. Nu pot pricepe cum este posibil asa ceva si ce au avut in minte cand au ales vechea varianta (sa mearga tot cu punte semirigida). E clasa medie (nu vreo ieftinaciune), e model nou, suntem in 2007, nu in 1975. Ma batea gandul....dar m-am dezumflat destul de tare.

Si Honda Civic (care se vrea masina sportiva) are suspensie spate semi-independenta (acum sa nu intelegeti cum ca as critica honda civic). De ce doresti suspensie spate independenta si nu esti multumit de semi-independenta?

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