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Cel mai puternic autoturism Diesel V8 din lume

andu911
post 8 Dec 2005, 03:32
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Mercedes-Benz E 420 CDI with more power and torque than any other V8 passenger car diesel engine in its segment


The new eight-cylinder drive unit at the heart of the E 420 CDI bestows it with levels of dynamism and smoothness that place it at the very forefront of its market segment, whilst generating a degree of driving pleasure previously unheard of in a diesel-powered vehicle. The new 231-kW/314-hp V8 engine delivers its peak torque of 730 Newton metres as low down as 2200 rpm, enabling the new E 420 CDI to race from 0 100 km/h in just 6.1 seconds and on to a governed top speed of 250 km/h. The combined fuel consumption is 9.3 litres per 100 kilometres. Exhaust emissions comply with the stringent EU 4 limits, the additional particulate filter comes as standard. The standard specification of the new top-of-the-range diesel model from Mercedes-Benz also includes the 7G-TRONIC seven-speed automatic transmission and AIRMATIC air suspension.


Alongside an aluminium crankcase, cooled exhaust-gas recirculation and an electrically operated intake air throttle, the prime technical highlight of the new eight-cylinder powerplant from Mercedes is its third-generation common-rail direct injection technology. The system's injection pressure has now been increased to 1600 bar, and instead of the solenoid valves fitted previously it now features piezoelectric injectors with a response time of just 0.1 milliseconds.

http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2050916.008

This post has been edited by andu911: 8 Dec 2005, 03:32


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GeorgeB
post 8 Dec 2005, 08:05
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bai nene , astia's tampiti. scot americanii V8 de 312cp , scot aia de la VAG 313cp , si acum astia de la MB 314 ... laugh.gif they are so funny


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dizzy
post 8 Dec 2005, 09:07
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Punem pariu ca vine acum si BMW V8 diesel cu 315 CP / 731 NM?
Dupa care VW pluseaza cu V10-le diesel la 333CP / 750 NM si tot asa.


This post has been edited by dizzy: 8 Dec 2005, 10:14


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Bytzu
post 8 Dec 2005, 09:55
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rea vorba despre dizelare v8, nu v10 si benzinare...si daca veti cauta bine, nu sunt multe masini pe benzina de generatie noua care sa scoata un raport la fel de bun cilindree/putere
s-ar putea apropia 535d, biturbo, 6inline, 3000 cmc, 290cp(sau pacolo)


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tatabobu
post 8 Dec 2005, 10:47
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QUOTE(Bytzu @ 8 Dec 2005, 10:55)
... nu sunt multe masini pe benzina de generatie noua care sa scoata un raport la fel de bun cilindree/putere
s-ar putea apropia 535d, biturbo, 6inline, 3000 cmc, 290cp(sau pacolo)
*



1. BMW-ul ala de care zici tu e diesel
2. Sa-ti fac un calcul? Ia uite: 314 CP din 4,2 litri = 74,76 CP/litru. Ti se pare mult? Uita-te la FSI-uri.


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GeorgeB
post 8 Dec 2005, 10:53
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oooooo domnu' vrea calcule ...

OPC . o saracie , da la opel , ce sa zic, stii matale aia de fac masini ieftine , nu se pot compara ei cu bmw ul .

dupa cum ziceam , 1.9 CDTI biturbo , 212 cp .

212 / 1.9 = 111.58

darn... mult mai mult ca preafalitul BMW .

asta e diesel , si se mictioneaza pe raportul putere / cilindree al bmw ului tau . vrei sa continuam ?

sa luam alte exemple :
honda S2000 , motor aspirat ! 2.2 - 240cp - 120cp/l mult ?

1.4 TFSI - 170cp - 121.42

sa-ti mai dau ?

subaru , are o gama intreaga de 2.0 T , 225, 260 ,280 si o gama intreaga de 2.5 T , 230 , 280 , 300 ...

mai vrei ?


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argon
post 8 Dec 2005, 11:00
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Mazda RX8, 231 cai la 1,3 litri 177.69 cai /litru huh.gif


Dar nustiu daca se pune ca motorul e alta conceptie icon_mrgreen.gif adica Wenkel


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Smeagol
post 8 Dec 2005, 11:01
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OK,

Mititel, vezi alaturat (Diesel Torque) - 'ista are 350 CP si aprox. 1200 NM pe 6.4l.

Dupe' cum am spus, mititel ...

This post has been edited by Smeagol: 8 Dec 2005, 11:01


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GeorgeB
post 8 Dec 2005, 11:03
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QUOTE(argon @ 8 Dec 2005, 12:00)
Mazda RX8, 231 cai la 1,3 litri    177.69 cai /litru huh.gif
Dar nustiu daca se pune ca motorul e alta conceptie icon_mrgreen.gif  adica Wenkel
*


n-are 1.3 are 2.6 wink.gif

tocmai ca e rotativ .


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argon
post 8 Dec 2005, 11:06
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QUOTE(GeorgeB @ 8 Dec 2005, 11:03)
n-are 1.3 are 2.6 wink.gif

tocmai ca e rotativ .
*





Are 2 camere de 653, 2 x 653=1300 icon_mrgreen.gif iti spun eu sigur happy.gif


http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/MazdaRX8/


http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=47&i=7249

etc etc ph34r.gif

This post has been edited by argon: 8 Dec 2005, 11:07


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GeorgeB
post 8 Dec 2005, 11:11
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da si stiam ca sunt 2 rotoare smile.gif



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argon
post 8 Dec 2005, 11:12
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QUOTE(GeorgeB @ 8 Dec 2005, 11:11)
da si stiam ca sunt 2 rotoare smile.gif
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Da. 2 a cate 653...acum practic nu stiu nici eu..da umbla vreo 2 pe la mine prin oras...cand o vad pe prima ii bat in geam la nea sa-mi arate talonul icon_mrgreen.gif

This post has been edited by argon: 8 Dec 2005, 11:14


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GeorgeB
post 8 Dec 2005, 11:17
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asa biggrin.gif



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tatabobu
post 8 Dec 2005, 11:19
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Are doua rotoare de 653 cmc fiecare, dar se echivaleaza cu un motor otto aspirat de 2600 cmc.


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einstein1984
post 8 Dec 2005, 12:51
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Fiecare rotor are 3 fete, deci rezulta de fapt 3.9l (explicand astfel consumul de 25l/100km). Chestia cu 1.3l e o gaselnita geniala de marketing, dar motorul la un ciclu complet aspira 3.9l de amestec aer/benzina.
Oricine stie ca mai mult cuplu e mai bine, dar dieselurile astea incep sa depaseasca camioanele de 7 tone. Motorul ala poate propuls un autobuz de 12m lejer. Unde se va opri cresterea puterii (care vad ca a iinceput si la MAC-uri)? In momntul cand se termina petrolul?


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tatabobu
post 8 Dec 2005, 12:57
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Uau! La asta nu ma gandisem! Atunci berlina mea are 4x1289=5156 cmc! Sa vezi si sa nu crezi! Tu ai idee cum se masoara capacitatea unui motor rotativ?


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GeorgeB
post 8 Dec 2005, 12:59
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suntem offtopic biggrin.gif


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argon
post 8 Dec 2005, 13:06
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QUOTE(einstein1984 @ 8 Dec 2005, 12:51)
Fiecare rotor are 3 fete, deci rezulta de fapt 3.9l (explicand astfel consumul de 25l/100km). Chestia cu 1.3l e o gaselnita geniala de marketing, dar motorul la un ciclu complet aspira 3.9l de amestec aer/benzina.
  Oricine stie ca mai mult cuplu e mai bine, dar dieselurile astea incep sa depaseasca camioanele de 7 tone. Motorul ala poate propuls un autobuz de 12m lejer. Unde se va opri cresterea puterii (care vad ca a iinceput si la MAC-uri)? In momntul cand se termina petrolul?
*




Bai tu ai idee ce vorbesti? ce le sti tu pe toate... radmasa.gif
Hai ca m-ai distrat radmasa.gif
Volumul unei camere(evident ca , cu toate 3 subunitatile) este de 653 cm cubi...motorul de RX 8 are 2 camere de fix 1,3 litri amandoua si consumul e 13 % mixt


uite aici un link util ca sa nu mai vorbesti (again) din auzite: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/rotary-engine.htm

This post has been edited by argon: 8 Dec 2005, 13:22


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walleye
post 8 Dec 2005, 13:33
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QUOTE(tatabobu @ 8 Dec 2005, 12:57)
Uau! La asta nu ma gandisem! Atunci berlina mea are 4x1289=5156 cmc! Sa vezi si sa nu crezi! Tu ai idee cum se masoara capacitatea unui motor rotativ?
*



tatabobu, fara supare dar are idee. gindeste-te ca intr-o camera a unui motor wankel coexista in orice moment 3 din cei 4 timpi ai unui MAS in 4 timpi. in cilindrul tau de berlina poate exista doar unul la un moment dat. capacitatea cilindrica a unui motor este cantitatea de amestec aspirata in timpul unui ciclu complet. 3 admisii per rotatie a rotorului => 3x capacitatea unei "camere" wankel. prin camera se intelege volumul "maturat" de rotor intr-un ciclu complet. ca intimplator la motoarele clasice e egal cu volumul geometric al cilindrului, e alta poveste. de fapt nici la alea nu e egal, este cursa x alezaj. pentru ca volumul maturat e un cilindru. la wankel e mai complexa treaba dar aia 600 cc sint "diferenta dintre volumul minim inchis intre o fata a rotorului si carcasa si volumul maxim inchis intre aceiasi fata a rotorului si carcasa".

uite aici: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wankel_Cycle_anim_en.gif

This post has been edited by walleye: 8 Dec 2005, 13:43


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argon
post 8 Dec 2005, 13:35
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Propun sa se desparta intr-un topic separat partea cu motorul rotativ, sa ne certam acolo ph34r.gif

Ce e as agreu de inteles? volumul maxim de aer disponibil indiferent de pozitia rotorului e 653 cm cubi intr-o camera a motorului RX8...are 2 cemere...parca ar fi chineza....0- blink.gif

This post has been edited by argon: 8 Dec 2005, 13:41


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walleye
post 8 Dec 2005, 13:47
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QUOTE(argon @ 8 Dec 2005, 13:35)
Propun sa se desparta intr-un topic separat partea cu motorul rotativ, sa ne certam acolo ph34r.gif

Ce e as agreu de inteles? volumul maxim de aer disponibil indiferent de pozitia  rotorului e 653 cm cubi intr-o camera a motorului RX8...are 2 cemere...parca ar fi chineza....0- blink.gif
*




gresit. rotor (triunghi rouleaux) in oval => trei "camere" al caror volum variaza intre 653 cc si aproape 0.

gindeste-te ca cercul inscris rotorului are aprox 10 cm iar "adincimea" rotorului e de 5+ cm. 3.14*10*10*5 = 1570 CC DOAR cilindrul inscris in rotor. mai pui lobii, plus "camerele" si ajungi la aia 3 litri.

This post has been edited by walleye: 8 Dec 2005, 13:50


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argon
post 8 Dec 2005, 14:16
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QUOTE(walleye @ 8 Dec 2005, 13:47)
gresit. rotor (triunghi rouleaux) in oval => trei "camere" al caror volum variaza intre 653 cc si aproape 0.

*




Trei camere ale caror volum cumulat e MAXIM 653


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AND
post 8 Dec 2005, 14:31
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Va rog frumos , tot cel prezentat in avatarul meu ramane cel mai puternic V8 on a passanger car. Audi A8 Quattro 4.2 TDi V8 0-100 in 5.6 sec , 326cp .


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walleye
post 8 Dec 2005, 14:42
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QUOTE(argon @ 8 Dec 2005, 14:16)
Trei camere ale caror volum cumulat e MAXIM 653
*



pe scurt, NU. ia schita de renesis, bag-o intr-un program CAD si sa vezi. crede-ma ca m-a interesat problema acum citiva ani si am cercetat. daca scoti rotorul afara ramine o gaura de peste 4 litri. rotorul dezlocuieste cam 2500 cc si restu de ~1500 cc reprezinta suma golurilor care sint "camerele".


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argon
post 8 Dec 2005, 15:53
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QUOTE(walleye @ 8 Dec 2005, 14:42)
pe scurt, NU. ia schita de renesis, bag-o intr-un program CAD si sa vezi. crede-ma ca m-a interesat problema acum citiva ani si am cercetat. daca scoti rotorul afara ramine o gaura de peste 4 litri. rotorul dezlocuieste cam 2500 cc si restu de ~1500 cc reprezinta suma golurilor care sint "camerele".
*



Nu contest ce ai cercetat tu, dar aici e vorba despre motorul Mazdei RX8..sa nu se creeze confuzii..in fine o sa aprofundez..

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einstein1984
post 8 Dec 2005, 16:53
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Walleye multumesc pentru interventia prompta si elocventa. Oricum ce am zis eu poate sa spuna si orice inginer de motoare termice sau jurnalist auto mai informat. Oricat de interesanta ar fi discutia, ar trebui continuata totusi in topic separat de motoare Wankel. Stiati ca si INMT a proiectat si construit un asemena motor? L-am vazut cu ochii mei.


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andu911
post 8 Dec 2005, 19:29
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QUOTE(AND @ 8 Dec 2005, 14:31)
Va rog frumos , tot cel prezentat in avatarul meu ramane cel mai puternic V8 on a passanger car. Audi A8 Quattro 4.2 TDi V8 0-100 in 5.6 sec , 326cp .
*



Daca stii germana...

Im Vergleich zum Konkurrenten aus Ingolstadt bringt es das Stuttgarter Achtzylinder-Triebwerk zwar "nur" auf 231 kW/314 PS, dafür hat es Vorteile beim Drehmoment: Der Motor des Audi bringt es auf 650 Nm (1600 bis 3500 U/min.), der des Mercedes auf 730 Nm. Sie werden bereits bei 2200 U/min. bereit gestellt. "Mit dem 420 CDI setzen wir uns bei der Dynamik und der Laufkultur an die Spitze des Marktsegments", verspricht Krämer.

http://www.n24.de/wirtschaft/branchen/inde...052110131600002


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GABONE77
post 8 Dec 2005, 20:17
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putin off topic sunt niste topuri destul de interesante zic eu

http://www.supercars.net/lists/sortedlists.html


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AND
post 10 Dec 2005, 16:06
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@andu :

Mercedes-Benz E 420 CDI
314cp
730Nm
0-100 in 6.1 sec

Audi A8 4.2 TDI V8
326cp
650Nm
0-100 in 5.6 sec

Benzul are intradevar cuplu mai bun , insa nu e nici mai puternic , si nici mai rapid .. si doar despre asta e vorba! E clar TDI V8 > CDI V8 ; are cu 12 cp mai mult si prinde suta cu o jumatate de secunda mai repede.

Inca n-a aparut un V8 diesel mai performant decat 4.2 TDi , si cand o sa apara , o sa-mi schimb profilul la " Worlds 2nd most powerful production diesel " icon_mrgreen.gif
..sau eventual sa-l inlocuiesc cu cel care preia stafeta.

PS: Hai sa fiim toti de acord ca dieselul a depasit benzinarul once and for all! Exemplu :

Audi A8 4.2 TDi V8 vs. BMW 7 series 760Li
326cp , 0-100 in 5.6 sec vs. 6.0 litri , 445cp , 0-100 in 5.6 sec

Care-i diferenta intre A8 V8 TDi si cea mai rapida berlina din lume? Adica BMW M5 ..see for yourselvs :
M5 - 5.0 litri , 507 cp , 520Nm , 0-100 in 4.7 sec ...diferenta de 0.9 sec! Iar M5-ul este mult mai usor (kg) decat un Audi A8! Iar cuplul V8-lui TDI este mult superior. Its over ..batalia este deja incet incet castigata de diesel-uri si pe fronturile highspeed.

This post has been edited by AND: 10 Dec 2005, 16:55


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GABONE77
post 10 Dec 2005, 18:17
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da dar nu cred ca o sa vedem la curse gen F1, Nascar sau Indy s.a.m.d. masini echipate cu motoare diesel.
intr-adevar s-au dezvoltat f mult cele diesel si datorita faptului ca e mai ieftina motorina decat benzina iar cercetarea motoarelor pe benzina a stagnat pt moment.


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