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BVA Laguna III, cutie de viteze automata - Q & A

didiland11
post 6 Nov 2011, 21:05
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Scrie-le pe email pentru a avea o dovada a raspunsului lor in caz ca ai nevoie de opc. voceaclientului.renault@renault.com


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dili
post 7 Nov 2011, 08:22
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O intrebare pentru cei care au deja CVA: se poate trece din N in D (adica, practic, bagat in viteza) in timpul mersului (cu masina in miscare)?
Din D in N (scos din viteza) am trecut, in mers, fara probleme - de ex. atunci cand te apropii de un semafor si ai mult timp pana la schimbarea in verde. Dar din N in D nu am schimbat decat cu masina in stationare.

This post has been edited by dili: 7 Nov 2011, 08:22


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ariciul76
post 7 Nov 2011, 20:06
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in principiu nu are ce sa dauneze.
Eu experimentez acum trecerea din R in D sau invers fara a mai astepta oprirea completa a masinii.
Si ''coafura rezista''


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dili
post 7 Nov 2011, 20:49
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In conditiile in care, din N in D, poti sa treci levierul direct, fara sa apesi frana si fara sa apesi pe butonul de blocare, cel putin teoretic cred ca ar merge.
In ceea ce priveste trecerea din D in R si invers, eu am facut-o cu masina in miscare (ce-i drept usoara), la manevrele de intoarcere rapida. A mers uns, nu a zmucit si nu a carait nimic.
Problema mea era cu trecerea din N in D la viteze relativ mari.


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ariciul76
post 9 Nov 2011, 18:23
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Mie imi suna oarecum ilogica intrebarea, dar poate ca e din cauza celor citeva paharele luate pe burta goala:
de ce s o treci din N in D la viteza, ca daca ai viteza ai ajuns acolo cu maneta in D, deci prinzi viteza cu masina in D, apoi o treci in N si apoi din nou in D?!

Sau te gindesti ca ai prins viteza mergind la vale si apoi o treci in D? Ca e si asta o varianta mai putin plauzibila ce i drept.

O sa experimentez miine sa vedem.



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dili
post 9 Nov 2011, 20:48
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Un exemplu concret: am in jur de 50-60 si ma apropii de un semafor care e pe rosu; o trec din D in N, in ideea ca trebuie sa opresc oricum si masina merge frumusel, din inertie, catre semafor. Cu ceva metri inainte de semafor, cand masina are inca in jur de 40-50 sa zicem, semaforul se face verde.
Ce fac: opresc pana la 0 si trec in din N in D sau pot sa trec din N in D direct, cu masina in miscare?

Si exemplul tau cu coborarea unei pante in N este la fel de bun. Ce fac la baza pantei, opresc si trec in D sau trec din N in D cu masina in miscare?


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Lex Luthor
post 9 Nov 2011, 22:05
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Ca posesor de vreo cativa ani a unei masini cu cutie de viteza automata iti spun ca este total contraindicat sa cobori o panta cu cutia de viteze in N sau sa mergi cu masina cu levierul in N (cum spui tu ca ai vrea sa faci inainte de un semafor). Care ar fi ratiunea acestor fapte? Crezi ca-ti va consuma mai putin? Sau ca menajezi cutia? Nu, probail vei reusi doar sa strici cutia. Cutia se pune in N numai la stationari prelungite cu motorul pornit. Sau in cazul in care masina trebuie impinsa sau tractata. In niciun caz in timpul mersului normal. Cine te-a sfatuit asa, te-a sfatuit prost.

Nici la oprirea la semafor nu se trece cutia in N. Toate cutiile automate moderne au sisteme electronice care, in cazul apasariii pe perioade mai indelungate (de peste 10 sec) ale pedalei de frana trec automat iintr-o pozitie neutra;

Iti dau un exemplu din manualul masinii mele:

"The electronic automatic gearbox is fitted with a device reducing inside gearing dragging when the car is stationary and the brake pedal depressed. The advantages of such a function are a considerable noise reduction, with consequent vibration reduction and limited fuel consumption."

This post has been edited by Lex Luthor: 10 Nov 2011, 10:37


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dili
post 10 Nov 2011, 11:56
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OK, multumesc, e bine de stiut.
Cand am luat masina, in scurtul instructaj de la livrare, mi s-a recomandat sa trec in N si daca timpii de asteptare la semafor sunt mai lungi de 20-30 de secunde.


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Lex Luthor
post 10 Nov 2011, 14:40
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Nu e nevoie sa treci in N cand astepti la semafor. Poate doar pentru comoditate, ca sa nu mai stai cu piciorul pe frana.

Atunci cand am cumparat masina, dealerul (care vindea in principal masini cu CVA) mi-a spus ca daca stau mult pe loc cu masina pornita sa trec cutia in P sau in N.

Cutia mea (de fabricatie Aisin Warner, Japonia) - si cred ca si cutiile moderne de pe Renault - are o facilitate denumita Neutral Control.
Ea functioneaza in felul urmator:

Neutral Control
Neutral control is when the transmission control moduleTCM disengages the forward clutch, (C1), at a stop with the brake applied. This reduces the load on the engine, therefore reducing engine vibration and improving fuel economy. When the brake is released the forward clutch engages. The following conditions must be met before the neutral control function will be allowed:
• Manual shifter must be in D, 4 or 3. Neutral control will not work in winter mode.
• Transmission oil temperature must be above 10°C.
• Throttle position must be less than 3%.
• Brake pedal must be depressed.
• Vehicle speed must be zero Km/h.
• Engine speed must be less than 1500 RPM.
• There is a 2 second delay once the vehicle has stopped in the D position and a 5 second delay when shifted from N to D.


Aceasta facilitate este automata. Nu trebuie sa selectezi nimic. TCM-ul (calculatorul cutiei) face asta automat. Pur si simplu se simte ca, in conditiile in care masina s-a oprit si mentii piciorul apasat pe frana, tractiunea de la roti se decupleaza. Si poti s-o tii asa in D cu frana apasata cat vrei tu.

Calculatorul cutiei are o multitudine de programe si strategii (unele de care nici nu ne dam seama in timpul mersului). In functie de programul selectat de calculator (TCM) schimbarile treptelor sunt diferite, de aceea ni se pare ca uneori cutia schimba vitezele altfel decat eram noi obisnuiti. Asta pe langa facilitatea de "autoadaptare" adica invatarea modului personal in care fiecare conduce masina.

Fara a avea pretentia ca programele urmatoare se aplica oricarei CVA, redau un extras din manualul masinii mele referitor la programele cutiei de viteza:

Economy Mode – This mode is used by TCM under normal acceleration. The TCM provides the earliest possible upshifts and lockup for best economy. The TCM adjusts oil pressure to provide smooth shifts and engagements.

Sport Mode – The TCM changes from economy to sport mode if the accelerator pedal is pressed down quickly and the vehicle exceeds 50 km/h. In sports mode the shift points are raised to provide the best performance and down shifting occurs at lower engine RPM. When the accelerator pedal is moved less quickly, the TCM resumes economy mode automatically.

Kick down – When maximum acceleration is required (e.g. during overtaking), if the accelerator is rapidly and fully depressed, lower gears are automatically engaged, provided the engine rpm enable this operation. Later, when the accelerator pedal is released, the gear engaged is selected according to the type of driving and the position of the accelerator. Kick-down can be engaged only when the gear lever is at D.

Downhill Mode – When the throttle angle is less than 3% and the vehicle speed is increasing, the computer will command higher shift speeds to provide more engine braking.

Uphill Mode – When engine load is high and vehicle speed is decreasing, the computer will command higher shift speeds.

Traffic Jam Mode – When the vehicle stops and starts with less than 10% throttle angle, the computer commands 2nd gear starts to increase fuel economy and reduce shift busyness. Normal mode resumes when the throttle angle is greater than 30% or vehicle speed is greater than 30 km/h.

Curve - TCM is able to recognize particular situations like a curve, detected as a different speed of front wheel instant rotation through the ABS active sensors, thus preventing shifting to the higher gear until the engine revolution limit is reached. Only with this condition or at the end of the curve will it be possible to shift gear. This strategy is useful to improve the car balance and to guarantee a prompt acceleration when coming out of the curve, since the car has already the right gear engaged. Likely, during sudden braking, the lower gear is engaged to exploit the engine braking action at best. In case of a curve, the new gear will be engaged during slowing down before the curve, therefore when coming out of the curve it will not be necessary to shift gear to accelerate.

Winter Mode –When starting to drive with a reduced road grip (snow-covered, icy road, etc.), the shift control unit automatically engage the “ICE” programme. This programme allows starting with the 2nd gear engaged, in order to improve the gear shift efficiency according to grip conditions.

Catalytic Converter Start – This function helps the engine to reach operating temperature by preventing converter lockup and delaying the 1-2 and 2-3 upshifts when the engine is cold. This is a normal function.

Cold Mode – When the engine coolant temperature is less than 50°C, the shifts will occur at a higher speed.

Hot Mode – When the transmission oil temperature reaches 140°C, the computer applies the converter clutch at lower than normal speeds and raises the shift points to a high speed. When the transmission oil temperature drops below 132°C, normal mode will resume.

High Altitude Mode – When the barometric pressure is less than 12.76, the computer will command higher shift speeds.

Protection Mode – This mode is like failsafe or limp-in mode in other vehicles. When the protection mode is tripped by a code you will have 5th gear in drive and intermediate. When in manual low you will have 2nd gear. Cycling the ignition will give you normal mode again until the code is set again.


Analizand aceste strategii de schimbare a vitezelor vom intelege mai bine comportamentul cutiei automate in diferite situatii. smile.gif


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ariciul76
post 10 Nov 2011, 19:30
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Am testat. la 90 si 130 km/h, nu se intimpla nimic special: o treci in N, turatia scade la relanti, o treci din nou in D, turatia RAMANE la relanti atita timp cit nu calci acceleratia.
oricum, merge fara probleme.
nu vad insa sensul, asa cum au spus si altii pe aici.

In privinta programelor cutiei, sint de a dreptul impresionat. asa imi explic faptul ca de cind cu vremea rece (am observat de altfel si anul trecut) cind o pornesc la rece, vitezele se schimba mult mai greu, se tureaza mai tare.

Destepti oamenii cu ochi mici!


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dili
post 10 Nov 2011, 19:38
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Asa e.
Multe din cele descrise de Lex Luthor le-am constatat si eu "pe viu".


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Luko13
post 16 Nov 2011, 09:49
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Dragi colegi,
Am intrebat un prieten care lucreaza la Renault daca se schimba sau nu uleiul in cutia de viteze CVA. Acesta s-a interesat la colegii lui care sunt specialisti in cutii de viteze si mi-a raspuns: DA , se schimba! O sa-mi dea mai multe detalii in zilele urmatoare , precum perioada la care trebuie schimbat si modalitatea. Zicea ceva de genul ca inainte de schimbare trebuie incalzit uleiul la 60 de grade. Cand o sa aflu detalii o sa postez.


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ariciul76
post 19 Nov 2011, 16:19
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daca imi aduc bine aminte, in manual zice de 45+-2 grade.
De asemenea se schimba doar 3.5 l, probabil ca sa l schimbi pe tot trebuie data cutia jos.
Din pacate nu scrie daca trebuie schimbat sau nu.


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florinoana
post 14 Oct 2015, 20:50
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QUOTE(Luko13 @ 16 Nov 2011, 09:49)
Dragi colegi,
Am intrebat un prieten care lucreaza la Renault daca se schimba sau nu uleiul in cutia de viteze CVA. Acesta s-a interesat la colegii lui care sunt specialisti in cutii de viteze si mi-a raspuns: DA , se schimba! O sa-mi dea mai multe detalii in zilele urmatoare , precum perioada la care trebuie schimbat si modalitatea. Zicea ceva de genul ca inainte de schimbare trebuie incalzit uleiul la 60 de grade. Cand o sa aflu detalii o sa postez.
*


cautam detalii despre schimbul de ulei din cutie si nu prea am gasit nimic smile.gif

se schimba uleiul? cum? cat? smile.gif


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RADU__
post 15 Oct 2015, 07:55
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Uleiul in DPO nu se schimba daca nu a inervenit un "eveniment" care sa fi generat pierderea de ulei.
Restul este "gargara comerciala". Cat despre modalitatea de schimbare a uleiului, este o procedura in trei etape succesive, dupa ce cutia ajunge la 60ºC.
Am descris procedura in topicul cu probleme cva.

This post has been edited by RADU__: 15 Oct 2015, 07:59


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Luko13
post 15 Oct 2015, 10:07
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Sincer , nu am mai discutat cu baiatul ala .Parerile oricum sunt impartite . Majoritatea cu care am discutat au spus ca nu se schimba daca nu a intervenit o pierdere de ulei. Masina o am de 4 ani si merge foarte bine, chiar ma uimeste pe zi ce trece de fiabilitatea ei. Sincer nu ma asteptam sa fie asa mare diferenta de fiabilitate intre Laguna 2 ( am avut una timp de 4 ani) si Laguna 3. Luna viitoare apare Talisman in reprezentanta si o sa merg sa fac un test drive sa vedem ce este de capul lui.


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bogdanlx
post 17 May 2016, 09:25
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salutare
am vrut sa schimb eu uleiul la cva chiar la reprezentanta. Mi s-a sous ca nu se schimba uleiul decat daca au fost pierderi. Orice problema legata de cva (lipsa presiune) apare sub forma de mesaj in bord.


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mars
post 31 May 2016, 15:56
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Cum vi se pare ca se impaca CVA cu motorul pe benzina?


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RADU__
post 31 May 2016, 21:12
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De fapt...care este intrebarea? Cine pe cine trebuie sa impace? De ce este vorba despre MAS si nu de MAC?

This post has been edited by RADU__: 31 May 2016, 21:16


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andreist
post 31 May 2016, 22:04
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bogdan, orice lichid, ulei SE SCHIMBA, reprezentanta nu are instructiuni de schimbare din cauza ca uleiurile/lichidele respective sunt testate sa reziste pe durata maxima a garantiei, dupa, clientul plateste. Uite un caz real de la Mercedes privind cutia automata, prima data au spus ca nu se schimba prin 2000-2002, si au continuat cu aceeasi cutie mai mult timp, dupa care au spus ca defapt se schimba o data la 60.000km prin 2007. ( Recomandari de service )


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argon
post 1 Jun 2016, 06:17
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Relax, interesul unui om ce repara cutii bva e sã-ți zicã cã nu se schimbã uleiul, ca daca l-ar schimba toți la timp, nu ar mai avea clientela. Normal ca uleiul se schimbã obligatoriu la 4 ani sau 60.000, dacã vrei sã te ținã cutia.

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Luko13
post 1 Jun 2016, 10:20
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Eu unul am masina din 2011 si n-am schimbat niciodata uleiul in cutie. Am facut peste 100k km de cand o am . Masina are 220 k km acum . Am tot intrebat in stanga si in dreapta daca se schimba uleiul in cutie si toti au zis ca decat daca are pierderi. Chiar nu stiu ce sa fac. Masina merge perfect. Este cineva pe aici pe forum care a schimbat uleiul in cutie la Laguna 3? Daca da, cum a procedat?


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andreist
post 1 Jun 2016, 14:42
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Eu am schimbat la cutie manuala pe laguna, la automata nu stiu exact procedura, dar nu e sci-fi. Cumperi filtrul + uleiul potrivit si... schimbi.


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argon
post 1 Jun 2016, 15:26
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Uleiul din servo, care e acelasi ca la BVA, dupa 4+ ani e negru, miroase urat, si fara de proprietati, fata de unul proaspat, asa ca sa nu-mi ziceti ca la cutie nu se schimba, ca sunt povesti, solicitarea e mai mare ca la servodirectie.


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mars
post 1 Jun 2016, 16:28
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QUOTE(andreist @ 1 Jun 2016, 14:42)
Eu am schimbat la cutie manuala pe laguna, la automata nu stiu exact procedura, dar nu e sci-fi. Cumperi filtrul + uleiul potrivit si... schimbi.
*



Nu e asa simplu, se schimba la o anumita temperatura a cutiei etc.


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andreist
post 1 Jun 2016, 16:42
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Stiu cum se procedeaza la cutiile NAG1 si nu mi se pare sci-fi, trebuie doar un pic de rabdare, nu cred ca cele de renault sunt mai complicate. Cautati pe youtube renault cvt transmission oil change sau nissan cvt transmission oil change, din cate imi amintesc s-au pus si pe nissanuri aceasta cutie.


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RADU__
post 1 Jun 2016, 20:08
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Cand este asa de usor sa faci un om fericit.....
schimbati fratilor uleiul si va luati de o grija si veti fi proaspeti posesori de cutii de viteza cu uleiul schimbat.
Dar din experienta mea, eu spun altceva.


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mars
post 1 Jun 2016, 22:15
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Ce CVT visezi matale acolo? Asta cu facutul in spatele blocului merge la filtre, hai, o bujie, in rest e tiganeala. E complicat de schimbat si gata, n-are nimeni chef de probleme la CVA pentru nush ce chitosenie.

Repet: cei care aveti benzina cu automata, vi se pare OK combinatia? Trage frumos, vibreaza, chestii de genul asta? Imi inchipui ca e destul de mare consumul.


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andreist
post 1 Jun 2016, 22:53
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CVT = continuous variable transmission, ce are renaultul imprumutat de la nissan, nu visez... ca au ales sa se cheme cva, kkt in romania este altceva. Raspunsul este cutiei este destul de intarziat, la fel ca si la tasliman care dupa specificatii ar trebui sa fie alta mancare de peste. In prima luna te gandesti de 2 ori cand sa apesi acceleratia intr-o intersectie aglomerata iar la depasire iti intra in reflex sa apesi mai devreme acceleratia ca si comportament. Despre complicat, da este pentru mesterii de la coltul blocului, ca la dacia 1310 nu erau d'astea, dar pentru oricine inclinat tehnic este o operatiune destul de normala.

This post has been edited by andreist: 1 Jun 2016, 23:00


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mars
post 1 Jun 2016, 22:58
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Eu stiu ca e o automata secventiala clasica (AJ0). CVT e pe Fluence.

1 Jun 2016, 23:05:
Pare complicat, totusi: http://www.reno.ro/Inlocuire-ulei-cutie-L3-t268215.html

This post has been edited by mars: 1 Jun 2016, 23:05


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